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	<title>Comments on: The Case for Credentialing &#8211; Organizations That Need to Go Away</title>
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	<link>http://firehousezen.com/2009/06/04/the-case-for-credentialing-organizations-that-need-to-go-away/</link>
	<description>Brain Food for Mongo. Change management &#38; leadership in today&#039;s emergency services.</description>
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		<title>By: The Case for Credentialing &#8211; Answering Your Comments &#124; Firehouse Zen</title>
		<link>http://firehousezen.com/2009/06/04/the-case-for-credentialing-organizations-that-need-to-go-away/comment-page-1/#comment-190</link>
		<dc:creator>The Case for Credentialing &#8211; Answering Your Comments &#124; Firehouse Zen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 18:17:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firehousezen.com/?p=445#comment-190</guid>
		<description>[...] Search and Rescue&#8221; and they are running around doing wilderness searches, well, go back to my box of rocks comment.  Be what you say you [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Search and Rescue&#8221; and they are running around doing wilderness searches, well, go back to my box of rocks comment.  Be what you say you [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Star of Life Law Blog &#124; Firehouse Zen</title>
		<link>http://firehousezen.com/2009/06/04/the-case-for-credentialing-organizations-that-need-to-go-away/comment-page-1/#comment-191</link>
		<dc:creator>Star of Life Law Blog &#124; Firehouse Zen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 14:13:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firehousezen.com/?p=445#comment-191</guid>
		<description>[...] I posted before, a quote from a lawyers on lawyers: “Lawyers are like vultures – most people look upon [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I posted before, a quote from a lawyers on lawyers: “Lawyers are like vultures – most people look upon [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin</title>
		<link>http://firehousezen.com/2009/06/04/the-case-for-credentialing-organizations-that-need-to-go-away/comment-page-1/#comment-188</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jun 2009 22:50:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firehousezen.com/?p=445#comment-188</guid>
		<description>I live in a state where there is no agency tasked with certifying or credentialing Search and Rescue dogs. I have seen (many times) where someone will buy lights for their POV and load their pet dog into the truck and call themselves a SAR team!

If I didn&#039;t know better, I might think all volunteer SAR teams were like this.

However, there are a number of excellent non-governmental SAR teams in my state as well. I myself and a member of a volunteer K9 team.

Our ground searchers train to nationally recognized standards, (NASAR SARTECH, ASTM F.32, NFPA 1670, etc). Our dogs certify to national standards, and if state standards are ever implemented we will certify to them as well.

We have state-certified medical personnel (EMTs, first-responders, nurse). We have people trained in search management. We bring our own logistics (comm, food, shelter for extended ops, etc) and are designed to be self-sufficient.

We are NIMS and ICS trained and will integrate into the existing command structure.

Some may wonder why there is need for a volunteer K9 SAR team in the first place. It&#039;s actually quite simple: the AHJ (law enforcement, in our case) has asked for it, because there are no governmental wilderness
SAR response agencies in our area.

I am 100% for credentialing for both governmental and non-governmental SAR teams, but then the question becomes who is going to credential them?

My state will not recognize half of the certifications we currently hold, such as the SARTECH certs by the National Association for Search and Rescue, because they are not issued by the state emergency management office. Yet the state emergency management office does not issue *any* search and rescue certifications. Anyone see a problem here?

I suspect many of your readers have had bad experiences with some SAR teams, and this could be partially resolved by credentialing, but there will always be &quot;rogue&quot; (my terminology) SAR teams out there. Credentialing is a start to fixing this, but I believe that joint training with your local SAR team to know their capabilities and limitations *before* there is a need to utilize them in a search and rescue incident is the only way to really address this problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I live in a state where there is no agency tasked with certifying or credentialing Search and Rescue dogs. I have seen (many times) where someone will buy lights for their POV and load their pet dog into the truck and call themselves a SAR team!</p>
<p>If I didn&#8217;t know better, I might think all volunteer SAR teams were like this.</p>
<p>However, there are a number of excellent non-governmental SAR teams in my state as well. I myself and a member of a volunteer K9 team.</p>
<p>Our ground searchers train to nationally recognized standards, (NASAR SARTECH, ASTM F.32, NFPA 1670, etc). Our dogs certify to national standards, and if state standards are ever implemented we will certify to them as well.</p>
<p>We have state-certified medical personnel (EMTs, first-responders, nurse). We have people trained in search management. We bring our own logistics (comm, food, shelter for extended ops, etc) and are designed to be self-sufficient.</p>
<p>We are NIMS and ICS trained and will integrate into the existing command structure.</p>
<p>Some may wonder why there is need for a volunteer K9 SAR team in the first place. It&#8217;s actually quite simple: the AHJ (law enforcement, in our case) has asked for it, because there are no governmental wilderness<br />
SAR response agencies in our area.</p>
<p>I am 100% for credentialing for both governmental and non-governmental SAR teams, but then the question becomes who is going to credential them?</p>
<p>My state will not recognize half of the certifications we currently hold, such as the SARTECH certs by the National Association for Search and Rescue, because they are not issued by the state emergency management office. Yet the state emergency management office does not issue *any* search and rescue certifications. Anyone see a problem here?</p>
<p>I suspect many of your readers have had bad experiences with some SAR teams, and this could be partially resolved by credentialing, but there will always be &#8220;rogue&#8221; (my terminology) SAR teams out there. Credentialing is a start to fixing this, but I believe that joint training with your local SAR team to know their capabilities and limitations *before* there is a need to utilize them in a search and rescue incident is the only way to really address this problem.</p>
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		<title>By: truck6alpha</title>
		<link>http://firehousezen.com/2009/06/04/the-case-for-credentialing-organizations-that-need-to-go-away/comment-page-1/#comment-189</link>
		<dc:creator>truck6alpha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jun 2009 01:23:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firehousezen.com/?p=445#comment-189</guid>
		<description>Hey Steve, don&#039;t get ahead of us now! :)

Those are excellent thoughts and a HUGE part of the discussion.  I personally Do have some reservations about who is doing the credentialing and what they are considering &quot;experience&quot; and &quot;certification&quot;, and so on.

There is absolutely no reason why volunteer service should be held in a lower regard than career service, especially if there is substantiated documentation on training hours, participation, etc.  But I will certainly add your thoughts to the discussion, because that&#039;s some of the problems at the heart of this.  Thanks for your feedback!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Steve, don&#8217;t get ahead of us now! <img src='http://firehousezen.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Those are excellent thoughts and a HUGE part of the discussion.  I personally Do have some reservations about who is doing the credentialing and what they are considering &#8220;experience&#8221; and &#8220;certification&#8221;, and so on.</p>
<p>There is absolutely no reason why volunteer service should be held in a lower regard than career service, especially if there is substantiated documentation on training hours, participation, etc.  But I will certainly add your thoughts to the discussion, because that&#8217;s some of the problems at the heart of this.  Thanks for your feedback!</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://firehousezen.com/2009/06/04/the-case-for-credentialing-organizations-that-need-to-go-away/comment-page-1/#comment-187</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jun 2009 13:43:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firehousezen.com/?p=445#comment-187</guid>
		<description>Yes, credentials would help but WHO is the final authority on issuing them? WHO sets the standards? How are you going to avoid the age old paid vs volunteer bias in any credentialing agency? Any major incident that happens outside the major cities will almost certainly require volunteer response. We have to work that out before you start eliminating qualified volunteer responders. Case in point...I have a degree in Fire Admin...Ive spent 30 years as a volunteer, hold many many certs as FF, Fire Officer etc..but most career firefighters wouldnt give me the time of day...because Im a volunteer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, credentials would help but WHO is the final authority on issuing them? WHO sets the standards? How are you going to avoid the age old paid vs volunteer bias in any credentialing agency? Any major incident that happens outside the major cities will almost certainly require volunteer response. We have to work that out before you start eliminating qualified volunteer responders. Case in point&#8230;I have a degree in Fire Admin&#8230;Ive spent 30 years as a volunteer, hold many many certs as FF, Fire Officer etc..but most career firefighters wouldnt give me the time of day&#8230;because Im a volunteer.</p>
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		<title>By: Mick Mayers</title>
		<link>http://firehousezen.com/2009/06/04/the-case-for-credentialing-organizations-that-need-to-go-away/comment-page-1/#comment-186</link>
		<dc:creator>Mick Mayers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Jun 2009 01:30:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firehousezen.com/?p=445#comment-186</guid>
		<description>Thanks to each of you for your comments.  As far as &quot;the people who should be reading this&quot;, feel free to pass it on.  Right now it sounds like I&#039;m preaching to the choir.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks to each of you for your comments.  As far as &#8220;the people who should be reading this&#8221;, feel free to pass it on.  Right now it sounds like I&#8217;m preaching to the choir.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben Morse</title>
		<link>http://firehousezen.com/2009/06/04/the-case-for-credentialing-organizations-that-need-to-go-away/comment-page-1/#comment-185</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Morse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Jun 2009 01:19:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firehousezen.com/?p=445#comment-185</guid>
		<description>Right on Mick.  My experience at the Imperial sugar explosion was that as the Fire Ops guy, I needed a RIT.  I went to the crowd outside the scene tape to a group of ff&#039;s standing there and asked them if they had been trained as RIT. I didn&#039;t know them.  I had ff&#039;s there from many, many dept&#039;s.  The look on their face said they either didn&#039;t have the training, or they didn&#039;t think that was a job worthy of them, so I went to another group.(RIT is important to me) Credentialing would have certainly helped.  I&#039;ve pushed it with my local EMA and with my contact at GEMA, but no joy.  Gotta have it!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Right on Mick.  My experience at the Imperial sugar explosion was that as the Fire Ops guy, I needed a RIT.  I went to the crowd outside the scene tape to a group of ff&#8217;s standing there and asked them if they had been trained as RIT. I didn&#8217;t know them.  I had ff&#8217;s there from many, many dept&#8217;s.  The look on their face said they either didn&#8217;t have the training, or they didn&#8217;t think that was a job worthy of them, so I went to another group.(RIT is important to me) Credentialing would have certainly helped.  I&#8217;ve pushed it with my local EMA and with my contact at GEMA, but no joy.  Gotta have it!</p>
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		<title>By: Ted Bownas</title>
		<link>http://firehousezen.com/2009/06/04/the-case-for-credentialing-organizations-that-need-to-go-away/comment-page-1/#comment-184</link>
		<dc:creator>Ted Bownas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jun 2009 17:18:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firehousezen.com/?p=445#comment-184</guid>
		<description>The series keeps getting better and better, Mick.  Am I to assume that some of these rock-boxes have pissed in your Cheerios one time too many?  LOL...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The series keeps getting better and better, Mick.  Am I to assume that some of these rock-boxes have pissed in your Cheerios one time too many?  LOL&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Rick Patrilla</title>
		<link>http://firehousezen.com/2009/06/04/the-case-for-credentialing-organizations-that-need-to-go-away/comment-page-1/#comment-183</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick Patrilla</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jun 2009 16:35:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.firehousezen.com/?p=445#comment-183</guid>
		<description>Mick,
    I agree 100%.  I wish somebody else would read this.  Good reading and I can&#039;t wait for the next one.  Thanks.  Rick.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mick,<br />
    I agree 100%.  I wish somebody else would read this.  Good reading and I can&#8217;t wait for the next one.  Thanks.  Rick.</p>
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